Tulku Orgyen Tobgyal in an undated file photo. Photographer unknown.
By Lobsang Wangyal
ON THE WEB, 31 May 2020
Tulku Orgyen Tobgyal on Saturday apologised to Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama, after Tobgyal had criticised him for giving online empowerments.
In an apology letter, Tobgyal wrote that his criticism was aimed towards protecting the practice of tantra, and didn’t have any other motive.
“At the advice of my root guru, and scoldings I got from Sakya Trichen Rinpoche and Sakya Trizin, Ratna Vajra Rinpoche, they being my masters, I am withdrawing my recent words, and tendering my apology to His Holiness the Dalai Lama, and appeal to him to live a long life.”
“Following the suggestions of my masters, I will never again in future criticise online teachings and empowerments.”
Tobgyal said that he received the “scoldings” in a letter from the Sakya Centre in Dehra Dun, (Sakya Trichen and Sakya Trizen are the heads of the Sakya order), and then received a call from his master Dzongsar Khyentse Jamyang Khyentse Thupten Chokyi Gyatso advising him to withdraw his statements.
In his statement on Monday, Tobgyal had said that empowerments online, without physical presence, cannot be received. He criticised such online practices, and said that such acts were tantamount to destroying the Dharma.
Without explicitly naming Tobgyal, the letter issued by the Sakya Centre on Saturday said that the criticism against the Dalai Lama was deeply regrettable, and it could never be forgotten.
“In these distressing times with the pandemic, preaching Dharma online is most appropriate to benefit all.”
A host of other Tibetan organisations and individuals had issued letters condemning Orgyen Tobgyal. The Internet is bustling with negative comments against him.
President of the Central Tibetan Administration Lobsang Sangay denounced Orgyen Tobgyal for his statements and demanded that he apologise to the Dalai Lama.
I want to say something, but my wife is not allowing me. She is afraid we will make new enemies in society, and some people won’t like us. I am very confused. My family tells me to always remain neutral and queit and never express opinion in our society so that you can fit along with everyone. I am very confused.
I agree with one of the comments that our Cabinet Rank person who has great experience and knowledge had no guts to criticize Ugyen Topgyal. Moreover where are the NGOs like TYC, TWA, Gu Chu Sum, Students for a Free Tibet and others. All the Tibetans should Unite together and raise a voice against those who criticize our beloved leader HH the Dalai Lama. Please remember when we first arrived in India — how HH the Dalai Lama has worked hard for us. We all should be very blessed that we have a great leader like him who is loved and liked by whole world. Please Unite, Unite.
Oh please
I think OT has right to criticize. But his wording is too harsh and obviously it worked by religious Tibetans.
I was told by my Tibetan friends that some Tibetans are resorting to death threats and violence in the name for support for Dalai Lama. This would look bad in the eyes of the world.
I think violence has no place in society. These people should be reported to police, and their phones and emails must be taped to check connections with the chinese government. It is possible they are deliberately provoking fragile Tibetan society in factions and tribes to divide and destroy sense of unity.
It’s shocking and mind-blowing that Kalon Yuthok Karma Gelek was not even able to express regrets in his initial response to Tulku Ugen Topgyal’s egregious remarks against His Holiness. Something that even a young kid can feel pain. How come a person of Yuthok’s position and background didn’t see any problem with Ugen’s utterly irresponsible remark against His Holiness. So, now the only way to atone his action is to resign from the post of Kalon once and for all.
Thepo Tulku
Whether empowerments given online, without physical presence, are valid or not seems a reasonable topic for religious debate. There are innumerable injunctions in the Buddhist scriptures about maintaining the secrecy and sanctity of Vajrayana teaching.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting that giving the empowerment of peaceful deities like Avalokiteshvara, Medicine Buddha, Tara, or Parṇaśavarī might be directly harmful — especially when carried out by highly-realized masters such as HH the Dalai Lama or HH Sakya Trizin whose only intention is to benefit beings.
But I think it is fair to wonder, and have an opinion on. whether this might not lead in the longer term to indirect harm to and degeneration of the teachings.
As we have seen in the past, once one great Lama does something soon many much lesser lamas may follow, and their intentions may not be as pure and noble. They will then justify their actions saying HH the Dalai Lama did it — so it must be OK. Next there may be a slow creep where higher and higher, more profound and secret empowerments and teachings are given online. Slowly it could degenerate into a competitive online marketplace.
Is this OK? I don’t know, but do I think it is fair for Orgyen Topgyal Rinpoche to raise his concerns or state his opinion on this — and he shouldn’t be attacked or abused for that.
You are right. Ugyen Topgyal has raised a fair topic for debate about the validity of online tantric empowerment. Opinions would vary. And mostly it is up for the highly realized masters to discuss and deliberate upon in the context of scriptural texts and the changing times of modern technology. Letting everything go ONLINE can lead to stripping of the mystic sacredness of Dharma teachings.
But I think high lamas of all major sects of Tibetan vajrayana are expressing their approval to Ugyen Topgyal by their deafening silence. The only folks who spoke vehemently against Ugyen are ordinary Joes who are neither distinguished by their spiritual achievements, nor by their intellect, nor by wealth or status. So far no lama or laity of station has come out to condemn Ugyen Topgyal. And I think it is something to think about.
Tibetans, I would really stop this exchange of insults and aggression. Human beings often sacrifice food and shelter and life for ego. I remember a book by Gabriel Garcia Marquez (probably Hundred Years of Solitude) where the protagonist remembered a sarcastic remark from his best friend after 50 years, and wanted revenge. This is not surprising if you consider psychoanalyst Sigmund Freud’s study on ego. He concluded that human beings would often die for ego despite the lack of real incentives. He gave examples of Greek gladiators who would fight lions so that their name would remain immortal in society.
Reasonable people will say, ‘I will rather survive than die for honour and loyalty.’ But homo sapiens are not reasonable. That’s very important. I remember an example from our own lore on the matter of ego vs survival. 13th-century scholar Sakya Pandita, who was supposed to be a know-all and be-all (though modern people will deem him rather foolish) has written a famous line on honour and ego. He wrote: ‘Even if the proud bird is dying of thirst, he will never drink water from the ground.’ (char-doe chio khom na yang, sa la bhabpe choo mi toong).
In a clan- and tribe-based society like ours — comprised of a mere 150K helpless refugees with no real money — anything could happen. As Marxist Karl Marx reminds: “Poor people have nothing to lose by rebellion except their chains and indigence.” His point is this: Even if they rebel and they lose, they won’t be worse off than they already are.
Tibetans are starting a civil war. I don’t want it. I need to pay my rent, and feed my child. Mila Rangzen is deliberately stroking the flame. Stop it, please. We are poor helpless refugees with no money and power…
Please please please stop this civil war. Orgyen Topgyal Rinpoche is not an ownerless person. He has his supporters ranging from run-of-the-mill Bir shichak residents to the highest echelons of Narendra Modi’s BJP government. If we try to make this issue bigger and bigger, who will benefit? Please think Tibetans.
Do you think OT said what he said before visualizing what would happen next? No change. He must have prepared his statement for years and years. He has calculated everything. He must have given money to police and politicians and street thugs to protect him when he falls into problems. This is a meticulously calculated mess, as oxymoronic as it may seem.
There are 13 settlements or shichaks who will always stick by him due to the battle in the 1960s when all Tibetan lamas fled to India. All lamas wanted to become the leader. But the Dalai Lama team won. The Indian government is very aware of every single incident that happened, and they have sent secret agents and informers amongst us to keep track of what is happening amongst us. Don’t be stupid. Both Congress and BJP and Indian secret service including CBI, IB, RAW (find the list here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_intelligence_agencies) know every single detail about Khampa, Amdo, U-Tsang: Sanjor versus Shichak; Kagyu, Nyingma, Sakya, Gelug, Bon, Jonang. Please stop this drama. We have no support from the Indian government. They are for themselves.
Every single video you make on YouTube or Facebook or WeChat is being watched by Indian security agencies and the Chinese government. They will look at them, and use them to form their own governmental policies. Please stop. Nobody is stupid. Everybody knows what whey are doing. You think you are so clever. But you are not. Keep quiet.
Wow, how things have descended to this level. You’ve lost track of who your real enemy is – CCP China who is responsible for not only the suffering of Tibetan people and invader of our land but also the crisis like situation that the whole world is in right now. Because according to your wild imagination Urgyen Topgayl Tulku and his supporters receive support from the highest echelons of BJP and that is the most dangerous thing. I doubt BJP or for that matter any party would interfere in such petty internal matter but for the sake of arguement say its true then I would say not only Urgyen Topgyal but all Tibetans should seek support and give support to BJP. Wouldn’t you rather be supported by BJP than by political parties that undermine one’s own country? When the Doklam standoff was happening who went and met the Chinese secretly? Recently, when the opposition Lok Sabha leader urged PM Modi to accord diplomatic recognition to Taiwan without any delay after it had donated one million masks the opposition party was quick to snub their colleague and stated that it did not reflect their party position and even was forced to delete a tweet in which Mr. Chowdhury commented “Be careful China, Indian forces know how to defang the venomous snakes like you, entire world is watching the sinister design of the yellow expansionist”. Even blaming India for the situation with China and Nepal.
Boycott Chinese products. You don’t have to have hatred for them but hit them where it will hurt.
As Jamyang Norbu said, “nothing let grow anything under a Banyan tree” is applied here. We will have to go many miles before we realize true situation of Tibet. We below up Tibet and Tibetans in our time. Bunch of astray dogs wandering place to place looking for a piece of bone and having no kennel of his own. Shame on us !!
Tibetan people have expressed their spontaneous feelings and their deeply-felt genuine sentiments be respected. When a leader of His Holiness; stature comes under doubtful comments from any quarter, it is but natural that there will be a groundswell of reaction, and this must not be misconstrued.
It is not without reasons that Venerable Orgyen Tulku has tendered an apology, and the matter is closed. For any pretentious outside Buddhist scholars, it will not serve any useful purpose to pass ill-baked and cryptic judgment without understanding the Tibetan mentality.
Thank you Tibet Sun news, when I heard OT criticised His Holiness. I couldn’t sleep that day. However, finally he promised he never do again such stupid things. That is ok. Also he did apologise to His Holiness. I haven’t seen this new Bodkyi Dusbab. just only saw his criticism and some articles written by some of them. That is not so fair. Need everything truth what it happens. By the way I appreciated you Tibet Sun news. it is the one I can trust. Thanks!
Orgyen Topgyal Rinpoche got a bashing from his revered teachers Sakya Gongma Rinpoche and his son Sakya Ratna. And he has listened to them, and agreed not to criticize Dalai Lama. Now this case is over.
Our next fish to fry is Phunchok Stopdan, the fake Sino-Indian relationship and Tibetan Buddhist Lamas expert, who has insulted Dalai Lama on the Indian national TV. Let’s move on from our own Tibetan brothers. Brothers in a family quarrel. Husband and wife fight. Don’t they? They are after all one of our own. Let’s point out tanks and guns at this delusional Ladakhi.
It is with great sadness that I see so many condemning and feeling the urge of taking sides as if we were in a political race. Before you speak please consider that Kundun and Orgyen Tobgyal Rinpoche both never contradict the word of the Buddha and hence there is no contradiction between them.
The genuine buddha dharma has no sides and both masters have demonstrated this with every breath they take. When they seemingly debate, then it is for our sake only and to enrich the dharma, dismantle our small interpretations and fleeting perceptions. Please, consider this possibility at all times _/\_
Very beautifully put. Thank you
lobsang Sangay and choerig Kalon Youthuk are responsible for this chaos because they have needlessly involved themselves in a religious matter. Why??? They should stick to their secular government. HH Dalai Lama has given up Gaden Phodrang government founded in 17th century, and urshered in a secular governance which has separated from religious matters.
Tulkus are enlightened beings who come on earth to salvage sentient beings from ignorance. How can they compare to Tuklu orgyen topgal and His Holiness on the debate of the validity of tantric empowerment via the internet? This is a matter of sheer hubris on their part.
Why is Lobsang Sangay silent on Ladakhi parliamentarian P Stopden? CTA must release a strong rebuttal asap instead of throwing petrol on the bonfire, and divide our precarious society further.
I don’t see that anyone has contradicted him, and said that on the contrary, empowerments can in fact be received digitally, without physical presence. What they correct him for is making a public criticism of the Dalai Lama. Lamas and scholars of old had no such compunction; they would engage in debate as to what is true and valid.
Actually there have been some refutations of the idea that online teachings/empowerments are invalid or wrong, on Youtube for example, by Geshe Lobsang Dawa among others.
One innocent person got caught unaware in this vitriolic saga. The job of the Choerig Kalon is one of the most difficult in the Kashag. Religious groups are a difficult bunch to deal with and ours is no different. It’s like the proverbial keeping four snakes in harmony in a basket!!! They are often irreconcilable and virulently hostile against each other. As a result of the totally unwarranted and derogatory verbal diarrhoea by Ogyen Topgyal, Karma Gelek issued a statement that sought to calm tensions and not to antagonise the incorrigible person Ogyen Topgyal is reputed to be. As a Choerig Kalon, he has to be seen to be heard by all voices coming from the four traditions of Tibetan Buddhism. This is the hard job and often the Nyingma and Kagyud have protested of condescending attitude towards them. So, he had to do a tight rope walking. Unfortunately, those who doesn’t know this no-win situation have jumped on his statement and crucified him. Those who are baying for his blood are no other than the supporters of Penpa Tsering. They attacked him like a pack of dogs tearing him apart. It is a revenge attack but is he responsible for the downfall of Penpa Tsering? He is a stoic monk, a scholar in his own right though he never sought to don himself with a title of a Geshe, even though he could have done it. He is very good in Tibetan language being a student of the late Geshe Lobsang Gyatso, who was assassinated in cold blood by Shugden followers for supporting HH The Dalai Lama’s stand on Shugden. His English language skills are also excellent. There are few monks who are gifted with such combination of modern education and traditional studies.. He has devoted four decades of his life in service of the Tibetan people and has great potential for the future too.
OT’s remark was actually leaked by someone. He spoke it to a specific group and wasn’t meant to be publicized. Anyway he listened to his teacher Sakya Trizin and apologized. Tibetans should stop this furore now.
A far bigger insult to Dalai Lama came from a Tibetan heritage politician from Ladakh. Phuntsok Stopden has openly hinted Dalai Lama is a Chinese spy! Can you imagine – a chinese spy?!! He said if Dalai Lama isn’t aligned with Chinese government, why wasn’t he speaking up? He said this on Indian National TV program called Aaj Tak.
This is far bigger than some wechat leaks from orgyen topgyal rinpoche on trantric empowerment. No comparison. I expect Tibetan organizations like Tibetan youth congress, Tibetan politicians, and youtubers like Mila Rangzen, Thupten Thokmey, Loten Namling to come out and condemn this dispicable P Stopden. I am waiting.
I know that Vajrakilaya is HE Orgyen Topgyal Rinpoche’s heart practice, and I think while his statements are disturbing I understand his concern that others without Lineage might engage in false Empowerment and Live Teachings. I don’t think any of us are Enlightened yet? So therefore even Trulku and Rinpoche can make mistakes while in human body and choosing to return/be reborn into the realm of Suffering. I still Admire and Respect my Teacher to make a mistake and correct it. It is a wonderful example for all of us to follow. This demonstrates that until Enlightenment we will act out of ignorance occasionally. Just because Trulku and Rinpoche are reincarnations doesn’t mean they’re not human. Try to remember that?