Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje and Trinley Thaye Dorje pose for a photo during their meeting in France, on 9 October 2018. Kagyu Office
Tibet Sun Newsroom
McLEOD GANJ, India, 11 October 2018
Following the unexpected meeting of Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje and Trinley Thaye Dorje over the past few days in France, commentators on Tibetan issues gave their reactions.
Tibetologist Vijay Kranti from Delhi said:
The meeting between HH Ogyen Trinley Dorje and HH Trinley Thaye Dorje in France over the past few days, and their joint statement today, is a big welcome development on the Tibetan and Mahayana Buddhist front.
This development becomes more important because supporters of both religious gurus have been exchanging rival claims for the past many years. This had, unfortunately, done more harm to the Tibetan cause and image of Mahayana Buddhism in general, and the unity and image of Karma Kagyu school and its great lineage in particular. Non-Tibetan friends of Tibet, especially Indian well-wishers like myself, see it as a great positive sign.
Their joint statement today reflects admirable maturity and wisdom on the part of both spiritual masters. Let us hope that both these teachers will take the image of Kagyu lineage to new heights of glory with the blessings of their Gurus like HH the Dalai Lama and HE Tai Situ Pa. The world can now look forward to the return of the same glory and joy in the campus of Rumtek monastery in Sikkim as it was known for in the days of the previous HH Karmapa.
From Tibetologist Thierry Dodin, from France:
It is still too early to make really qualified comments. But some points can be made already now to highlight the situation.
First of all, this happens at a time when both find themselves in a phase of orientation in their personal lives, with decisions to take that will have a lasting impact.
Second, so far this was only a meeting to ”establish a personal relationship” between the only two individuals who can repair the schism.
But, third, at the same time, however good a relationship may develop between them, the way ahead is going to be stony. Persons and institutions who lived from the schism a quarter of a century long are not going to simply disappear. Besides, there can be only one Karmapa really, and the facts which have been established in this time cannot be undone.
Updated with Thierry Dodin's comment on 14 November 2018.
//Besides, there can be only one Karmapa really//
As long as influential people like Thierry continue to parrot this line, the seeds of conflict will not be rooted out. And,
//Persons and institutions who lived from the schism a quarter of a century long are not going to simply disappear.//
Right. They won’t disappear as long as they continue to hold onto their personal opinions and rigid traditionalism
It is a great development, and so far it seems that HH Ogyen Trinley Dorje is mostl likely to be the universally recognized Karmapa.
This strengthens the trunk of Kagyu who sprouts from pure roots of the Lord. Selfish minds got old to allow new life pray for all to be auspicious
@daveno.
Your line that Sera monastery fought against Potala monastery in 1930s with cannons is inaccurate. I wonder where you got this information from. Also, I have never heard such thing as Potala monastery.
It was the Sera monks who were attacked by cannons by soldiers of the Tibetan government. The civil war of the period is well elaborated by historian Melvin Goldstein.
I’m happy the Karmapas finally met. They both show maturity and obviously practice what they preach. Let’s all show respect for each other from now on. Peace out.
I feel Tai Situ and Shamar Rinpoches have done a great disservice to the Kagyu Sect by not coming to a legitimate conclusion that is acceptable to both sides before trying to outsmart each other by their to declare the real claimant to the Head of Kagyu sect. These two young lamas had to bear the brunt of the mistakes committed by the so called protectors of Kagyu sect. If we can’t have two reincarnations, one is surely not a real reincarnation. But who?
Maybe the lamas have their own recognition standard…
Although I am not Karma Kagyu follower, this rapprochement between the two, in effect legitimized Thaye Dorje. For Thaye Dorje who is already down by marrying, downgrading his reputation and moral ethics and also recent death of his protagonist Sharmar is a big win. So, it’s a long term loss to Ugyen Dorje for he has the most followers amongst the Kagyu and besides he was recognized by His Holiness the Dalai Lama and the Chinese Communist government too. Whatsoever, all this mess and soiling of Karma Kagyu sect in particular and Tibetan Buddhism was created by Shamar and Situ for they have to eventually pay the big prize.
Don’t be such a pathetic closed minded person. Are you sure you are a Khampa?
We don’t know what is coming next. If you look into the history, lamas have always been fighting. Tibetan lamas are extremely sectarian. And their sect is their priority.
For Tim Cook, Apple is his priority. For Karmapa, Karma Kagyu is his priority. For Dalai Lama, Gelug is his priority. Likewise for all lamas. But lamas never get along. Read Shagapa history, and you know it. In Tibet, they say, “each lama has a mountain as his elaka.”
So, i applaud Vijay Kranti — insightful Tibetologist — to welcome this news, and try to calm down the situation between various sects.
I was shocked to read that Sera monastery fought against Potala monastery in 1930s with cannons. ridiculous.
Lamaism is extremely dirty, and full of intrigue. But we know that it is much calmer and more civilized nowadays.
The piece by Tibetologist Vijay Kranti of Delhi or Lawrence of McLeod Ganj is both succinct and succulent, to say the least.
This is bound to quell all the infighting and bickering among many rumormongers and rabble rousers that has inevitably been simmering over the years. Needless to say, the prospect looks bright and benevolent.